Home Back to Europe 2000 IndexPart 1 The Beginning of Our Tour - London
(Lots of photos in following sections, this section is mainly advice based on our experiences)Beginning in London
Buying the Van
The LOOT
The Market Road Van Mart
What a van must have Insurance - Green Card
LPG Hassles and solutions
LPG problem solved - refillable cylinders by MTH Autogas
Repairs before setting out
Getting a Mobile Phone in the UK
Maps for the trip
Taking money for the trip VTM cards best
We had wanted to tour Europe by campervan for over 20 years, but
never got around to doing it. We knew of friends that had done so, but
it had always been in the background. At the age of 55, and Sharon at 51
we decided to do it now rather than later. Sure we could have waited, but
I am semi retired, that means that I probably will never work again, and
we were well able to afford it. I have been a Telecommunications Engineer
all my life and for the past twenty plus years have worked on contracts
in Papua New Guinea, Brunei, Thailand and Saudi Arabia. So we have both
had the experience of living in foreign countries and driving under many
vastly different conditions.
This little bit of personal background may help to put our views on the trip into perspective.
We both like camping, and we have long had a four wheel drive vehicle and enjoy trips into Australia's outback country, lonely inaccessible places where you may not see another vehicle for days were our favourite spots. So we consider ourselves to be resourceful, self reliant and adventurous, but never reckless. We like to do things our own way, at our own pace, and to be able to tour Europe this way had a natural appeal. Campervanning was a logical choice for us. For the right kind of people I thoroughly recommend it, but it could be a misery if you just aren't suited emotionally. Know thyself!Campervanning can also be by far the most economical way to see Europe. Your accommodation costs are cheaper than youth hostels, although the price of camp grounds is much higher in the UK and Europe than in Australia. Around £8 upwards in the UK for 2 adults and a small campervan (A$20 to 25 per night) and up to 45000 Lira in Italy about A$40 a night.
But the bonus of campervanning is that very often you don't need to stay in camp grounds at all, you can just park in a suitably discreet spot for free, even in Berlin, Paris and Rome, Florence and across the lagoon from Venice! "Boondocking" the Americans call it.
More on this later, and specific locations too, but "free parking" by campervans
is practiced all over Europe, and the locals do it too, in huge numbers. We
often joined, or were joined by, other vans, bicycle tourists or motorcyclists
on tour at roadside stops, in forests or in city parking places where overnight
parking is well tolerated. We refer to such places as SONPS,
Safe Overnight Parking Spots. Symbol
for the better ones and
for the not so good ones.
We love to save a dollar, and apart from the fact that sometimes there just isn't a conveniently located campsite nearby when you want to stop for the night, getting to park for free has a mischievous vagabond appeal, and its a local custom in most parts of Europe. To someone whose childhood comic book hero was Scrooge McDuck, cutting costs is something of a religion, not out of poverty, but as a desirable end in itself, elevating frugality to the pinnacle of virtue. I pride myself on being the consummate antithesis of the modern consumer. My test being that if I can't eat it, and if it wont last me at least ten years, or preferably the rest of my life, I should carefully consider weather or not I really need it, before I buy it.
Travel of course will provide enjoyment for the rest of my life, in knowledge, experience and memories, and so passes my test. Not every one will share my desire for frugality, and having been more conditioned to be a good little consumer for the glory and profit of our corporate rulers, will find the whole concept of campervanning, and free camping, and eschewing so called "luxury" for the sake of frugality to be a pointless exercise in asceticism. To each his own, but if you do want to have a European campervan holiday, travel wherever you like for months, and do so for the minimal cost, here is how its done.
A word of warning though, don't be undercapitalised. If the engine does blow up somewhere in the Extreemadura in Spain, have enough money to fix it available. If you have to be on such a tight budget that there is no room for the unexpected, you really cant afford it. Wait and save up until you can.
If you're prudish you might be a bit shocked at a few of my suggestive comments and the odd picture, in later sections, as I'm also sexually uninhibited and a nudist at heart, so you've been warned.
Our Ford transit 2.5L Diesel
LWB camper. Free Campsite on the south bank of the Loir River on D751 to west
of CHAUMAUNT SUR LIOR France.
There is an excellent guide to campervanning in Europe on the Internet called Moto Europa Look it up, and read their advice in conjunction with what you find here.
We decided to buy in London because we know the city fairly well, having visited in 1993 and 1997, and because of the language. The other alternative is I believe Germany. The reasons for these being the two best choices having to do with less administrative hassles involved in buying, registering and insuring a vehicle as a foreign non resident tourist in the various countries of Europe. Moto Europa gives some excellent detail of these matters which back up this view.
Moto Europa which lists some good pointers to look for in buying a second hand camper, which I condensed into a check list, printed out and took copies with me, to use when noting details from adverts, phoning the owner for additional details to find out if the van seemed worth inspecting, and finally recording the results of the inspection and test drive, if we got to that stage with a vehicle. We could then easily check back on details. After seeing a few vans, features can easily get confused if you don't record your inspections in an organised manner.
Moto Europa also suggest some places that can help you assess a vehicle in London. We didn't bother, I relied on my own judgment, but then I have done my own vehicle maintenance except for "big" jobs (major engine reconditioning and transmission strip down and repairs etc.) since I was 18. Know your own abilities. The difficulty is that many owners won't want you to take their van away for a test, and the ones Moto Europa suggest won't go out on site, so a local garage may have to do. There are mobile inspection services and the RAC will do on site inspections, but it costs a lot and you would need to be fairly sure it was the van for you before you pay out for an inspection.
There are drawbacks to buying, it took us three weeks of solid work, fully 8-10 hours a day hunting all over London to find the van. It was a lot harder than we had expected to find a good van at the price we wanted to pay, under £5000. You could be lucky, or you could compromise more and get one in a few days. In the end we were getting rather dispirited and went back to buy a van that we had first seen in the second week of hunting, but bypassed because it wasn't ideal. But we learned to love it and it worked out very well for us.
If your planned European trip is short, say less than two or three months, rent, don't buy. You need time to be flexible, both buying and selling your van, and along the route.
As accommodation in London can be horrendously expensive, even for rather second rate facilities, you need to have it worked out so that you are not under undue pressure to buy a van too quickly, because it is costing you £500, or more, a week for a hotel.
I began by researching on the Internet and found an excellent general campervanning guide in "Motor Europa", but we weren't really prepared for what we found when we actually started looking around for a van in London. We had expected it to be much easier, and for there to be a better choice of cheaper vans than there was.
The "London Auto Trader", a weekly magazine with several London regional editions was our other best source of information. It has picture adverts, for which people have to pay a substantial fee, so the sellers are often keen.
Many of the older UK vans are VW Transporters, which we felt (after having previously hired them for two six week tours of the UK) were too small for a comfortable 4 to 6 month tour of Europe, although a lot of people, particularly youngeters use them..
Motor Europa also listed a number of dealers in London specialising in cheaper second hand campervans. We visited most of them, and every other dealer we could find close to London that specialised in cheaper campers. Generally their stock of vans was, in our opinion, very poor, except for one dealer who specilised in Volkswagen Wesphalia Vans, but we felt they were too small for this longer trip. The "Westphalia" is a particular brand, probably one of the best, of professional conversions of a standard VW van into a camper.
At some of the dealers often vans were dirty poorly presented old wrecks, many 20 and up to 30 years old, some even older. They also were mainly leaded petrol engines, which are all but phased out in Europe, where in some countries you can't buy leaded petrol any more, and have to purchase an additive, that further adds to fuel costs. The countries that have phased out leaded petrol do not generally sell lead replacement fuel as is sold in Australia, where there are many more older cars still on the road than in Europe. In Europe, you have to actually buy the lead replacement additive in bottles, and add it yourself to the cars tank when you fill up with unleaded petrol.
Before you start hunting for the van, get a copy of the spiral bound Big London A-Z street directory. The A-Z directory comes in various formats but some are so small the maps are too hard to read unless you have perfect 20-20 vision. You will find it almost essential to find sellers premises and avoid a lot of wasted time getting useless directions over the phone. It will save you far more in time and phone calls than it costs, about £7.00
There are of course other more up market dealers, with a better range of vans, with not much under £10,000, if you want to spend that much.
We also noted a number of older professionally coach built campervans on Bedford lite truck mechanicals for private sale at around asking prices of £2,500. Like a very small Class C motor home in American terms. They had a very good layout, including shower and toilet and double beds over the cab. The problem is that they run on leaded petrol, and the original drivers and passengers seating is very poor . We almost bought one, a 1983 model with 53,000 miles on the clock. But we found that contrary to the owners probably honest though ignorant, assurances, it is not easy to convert them to unleaded petrol. They need a full head and valve transplant, and we were told the operation can result in oil leaks unless very competently done. They would still be much more expensive to run for fuel than a diesel, and may be getting hard to sell judging by the number we saw advertised. However the design of the living accommodation is excellent for a compact Class C, and if it were possible to fit decent front seats, which it probably is not, due to rather restricted room in the cab, the extra expense of fuel could be worth enduring. If you dropped the selling price to say £1,800 on return it would probably sell quickly, if you had bought well in the first place.
To limit the numbers of inspections to do, we eventually decided, in the last week of looking around, not to bother with any van where the owner, when questioned over the phone, indicated that it was a home conversion. Having said all that we eventually bought a home conversion!
We paid £4000 for a 1989 Ford Transit (Long Wheel Base) diesel van (83,000 miles) that had been home converted into a camper.
As a home conversion, our van was exceptionally and generally well done, and the owner informed us that it was his second van conversion and almost a professional job, before we agreed to go and see it. Even though there were things we didn't like about it, we learned to live with them, and by the time it was sold we felt we were saying good-bye to an old friend. The van had performed almost faultlessly on the trip, and after 12,000 miles (19,000Kms) we advertised it in the LOOT for £3,750 and sold it quickly, within 3 days, for £3,500.
To rent the cheapest van available for the time we used our van (about 5 months) would have cost much more than the total cost of the van.
The RAC lists fuel costs in all European countries on their Internet site and we had decided on a diesel before leaving for the UK. However we found relatively few diesel vans for sale, very few diesels at dealers, who wanted a considerable premium for them.
We did not want to pay a lot of money for a van because we feared that if we paid say 10 to £15,000 we could loose a lot on the resale, or be stuck in London after the trip, with winter coming on, trying to sell it. So we confined our search to vans under £5,500, already a lot more than we believed you could get a good van for from perusing adverts in the LOOT over the Internet.
If you were perhaps a young holiday maker with a greater sense of fearless, almost reckless, adventure than a 55 year old Engineer could muster, its possible that you could easily find an old £1,500 van with little fuss, and little regard for fuel costs, comfort or potential reliability, and with a bit of luck have a marvelous adventure with four people packed in a van more suited to two. In the early stages of our search for a van we met a few young people who had done just that, and loved it. But this was not for us, and hence the three week long search, which in the end, we felt, proved well worth it.
This information is outdated. We went there (late March 2000) and found only a burnt out wreck of a van with a small sticker attached advertising one of the London van dealers, whose stock proved to be little better than the wreck on the roadside.
We made extensive inquiries, at the tennis club in Market Road, with the local police, the local council, the local "neighbourhood watch", Downunder Insurance, and the offices of a New Zealand expatriates magazine. No one could give us any information on where the van market was now. We concluded that it no longer exists.
We determined the following facts.:-
1. That the new management of the Tennis Club (who had been there only a couple of months) had not seen any vans being sold along Market road recently.So if there is still a "van market" somewhere in London our exhaustive inquires failed to find it. I suspect that with the advent of the LOOT and mobile phones it has succumbed to the advance of technology and no longer exists.
2. The council had (some months previously) imposed a one hour no parking restriction in Market Road in the mid morning to prevent people parking there "permanently".
3. The local neighbourhood watch leader, whose phone number we obtained from the local police CID claimed Police had enforced the parking restriction after complaints from a nearby football club that vans were taking up too much parking space "permanently" preventing patrons from parking.
4. Police claimed to not be aware of any new location in London where the van market had moved to.
5. Downunder insurance and NZ magazine (that's not its actual name) staff still believed the van market was in Market road and were still telling people so, as they told us. We advised them that their information was no longer correct.
6. Market Road is still a good place to park, almost unrestricted, except for the one hour mid morning period, and plenty of free space, hardly a car in the road when we went during the week. Its close to the Caledonia Road Tube and you could easily park there overnight and use it as a London base, leave your van after the restricted period ends, spend the day in London and sleep in the van overnight if you wished, moving off for the "no parking hour" and then returning to a slightly different location down the road for another day, before going back to a more permanent London base at one of the outer London van parks. The Market Road area in North London also appears to be reasonably safe, not a depressed slum area, where petty crime may be more of a problem.
One enterprising van dealer has opened up shop almost directly opposite the Caledonia Road Tube station, so if you go there, check him out. The staff seemed pleasant enough (don't all used car dealers, until you have a problem!) so they are worth checking out, although like all of the low cost dealers, most of the stock was rather unattractive, and the only reasonable diesel had already been sold.
They gave us one piece of good advice concerning the very seasonal nature of the market. We visited them about 22 March and already the seasonal build up in demand was starting, and the salesman told us that by mid April good vans would be getting hard to find. Sales pitch perhaps, but it will definitely be easier to get your van if you get to London no later than mid March.
Sharon in the van. The
kitchen is at the rear. Toilet in compartment with the blue towel hanging on
the door. Sink is behind Sharon, two burner stove and oven and small three
way refrigerator (240V, 12V and LPG) on left. Bed just visible on left is folded
into a day couch. Wardrobe on right with the VCR (we never used it) built in
below the TV, which we also never used. We had a good 4 speaker FM radio and
CD player system which we greatly enjoyed.
Although larger (Class A and C type) motor homes or Recreational
Vehicles (RV’s) are available at a price, they are almost always newer
diesel units. There are many smaller camper vans with 1.5 to 2.5 litre
engines, which Americans call Class B. However they are usually based on
smaller vehicles than Class B units in the USA They therefore
do not have as much space and typically do not have built in toilets and
showers, grey water holding tanks, air conditioners, generators, microwaves,
hot water systems, etc. If you want all this, it is available in
larger Class A or C units, but the price range will be more in the
order of £10,000++ upwards for a secondhand vehicle.
David in the van at a
SONPS in France, enjoying a glass of Spanish Sangria. Note the passenger seat
can swivel around. The table is mounted on a standard single pedestal fitting
and is easily stowed. The couch converts into a double bed. Above the cab where
part of the original metal roof had been left (not visible) was room to store
our sleeping bags and empty back packs. Don't bring suitcases, there is nowhere
to stow them in a van like this.
This article deals with the smaller Class B
type campers.
Diesel Engine. A diesel will save you so much in fuel costs in Europe that anything else is just not worth considering. Our Ford Transit 2.5Litre diesel consistently averaged 34 miles per Imperial gallon, or around 13Km per litre, measured repeatedly over thousands of miles and all conditions. Diesel is also much cheaper per litre than petrol throughout Europe. For example in France around 5.2FF for diesel, against 7.8FF for Unleaded petrol.
On top of that you will get vastly more mileage from diesel. We estimated
that if we had a similar size petrol vehicle it would have cost us almost
2.5 times as much for fuel as we actually spent on diesel. A petrol vehicle
would probably get about 18-20 MPG.
Using an Excel spreadsheet and figures from the RAC web site for fuel costs in Europe, and allowing appropriate distances in each country, using the actual consumption of diesel we achieved (34 MPG), and allowing 18MPG for a petrol vehicle, the cost saving by using diesel over 18,000 Kilometers amounts to around £950, or around US$1500.As fuel is one of your major costs, particularly if you free camp a lot, choosing a diesel is the only logical choice. Diesels will cost more to buy than a similar petrol vehicle, but you will get most of it back when you sell, and a diesel will probably sell more easily. The fuel savings on a typical round trip of Europe will amount to thousands of dollars by using diesel.
Good Dealer Network in Europe. Wherever you go in Western Europe you will find dealers for Ford, Renault, Peugeot, VW, Fiat. (Iveco) and Mercedes. The vehicle you buy should be one of these brands. Japanese or other Asian vehicles may be fine at home, but in Europe, outside of capital cities, they just don’t have the widespread dealer network to help you with parts or repairs if things go wrong.
Toilet. We had a "Porta Potty" in a small compartment at the rear of the van. You don’t need to have it in its own compartment, but it helps. However a toilet is an absolute MUST HAVE. Roadside public toilets are a very rare commodity in both the UK and many parts of Europe. Apart from the need for a toilet to facilitate free camping (boondocking), without further contributing to the roadside excrement polluting so many stopping points, particularly in Italy, the general convenience can not be overestimated. Even if you opt for a cramped VW Transporter, find somewhere to stow the "Porta Poty". (A Porta Potty is a small self contained plastic moulded toilet, with flush water and waste holding tanks. A chemical additive is used to suppress odours, and the unit’s easily carried waste tank is emptied at a public toilet, or campground dump site as required every few days. They cost from £50 upwards at camping discount shops.)
Standing Head Room. In my opinion "pop tops" have no real advantages, and lots of draw backs. Get a vehicle with a solid fibreglass roof, with full standing headroom. Make sure the roof is insulated. This is usually done with some sort of carpet glued to the inside of the fibreglass roof dome. If a pop top saves anything at all in fuel it would be trivial compared to the saving by using diesel fuel. Having to erect the pop top every time you stop to have a cup of coffee or a meal would become a real bugbear. Pop tops are also prone to leaks unless the fabric and the seals are in good condition.
Workable Kitchen. Generally you will be preparing meals and eating in the van, except for some special occasions when you dine out. Dining out all the time would become very expensive. You need a two burner stove, but you don’t really need an oven. A small refrigerator is desirable and will usually be fitted, but its not absolutely essential. A sink and a small work area, plenty of storage for food and kitchen equipment, a comfortable seat, usually the fold down bed, and a table that stows away easily are also musts.
Storage Space. Lots of it, and in particular some hanging space for cloths. Plenty of cupboards, and storage under the convertible bed. (Don’t bring suitcases on your trip. You will have no where to store them in the van. Pack your belongings into a back pack or duffle bag which can be folded up to store in the van.)
Comfortable Bed. One that is long enough for your body to sleep without being cramped. In a Transit a transverse bed will not be long enough for tall people, and the bed running lengthwise in the vehicle is better.
Comfortable seats. You will spend a long time driving. Our van had excellent "Captains" seats fitted from a truck of some sort, with good contours, adjustable lumbar support and height, and they could swivel around to face back into the living area.
Adequate Ventilation. An opening hatch in the roof, and one or more opening windows placed at the rear or well rearward in the plan are essential. It gets hot in Europe in summer, in Spain it’s very hot, and good ventilation is essential.
Shower. Great if you can find a vehicle with one, but unless you spent over £7000, and probably get a considerably larger vehicle than a LWB Ford Transit or are really lucky, you won’t get a shower in a smaller vehicle. You can make do without. Many free camp spots are sufficiently remote that you can have a "pot shower" by heating some water on the stove and "showering" outside the van. All the camp-grounds have showers.
Heating. When you go to a camp site and pay considerably extra for electricity, (usually about $A3 to 4 per night on top of camp fees for electricity) you can use a small fan heater, but for free camping outside of the real summer months, some heating is nice to have. Gas is more common, although our Transit had an excellent system that used Diesel fuel and an electrically fired up burner and heat exchanger mechanism. A small fan ran off the auxiliary battery circulated air through the heat exchanger and fuel was drawn from our main tank. However such systems are unusual and you would be fortunate if you find one. Gas heating is most common, however it would be expensive to run if you have to use "Camping Gas" which is the only type of cylinder available all over the UK and Europe. If using it for heating you would notice the cost. More on gas supplies later, it is a real pain due to lack of standardisation of cylinders.
Roll Out Sun Awning. Usually found on larger vans, but we were fortunate to have one on our Transit. They provide weather protection to the side door on the van, and welcome shade. It can get very hot in Spain.
Insect Screens. There are Mosquitos, all over Europe, in summer, surprising maybe but true. There aren’t a lot of them, no swarming tropical hordes waiting to eat you alive, but enough to be annoying at night, so insect screens on the windows are most desirable. We managed without screens on the doors and windows, but some form of screening, even some lengths of mosquito net to just drape over the front cabin windows held in place by closing the door on it would be useful.
Hose. A short length of 12 mm garden hose, perhaps 3 meters long is useful for filling your water tank. Have adapters to fit 12 mm and 19 mm threaded hose taps as these are standard all over UK and Europe.
Tools. Just the basics, a proper suitable jack that works and a wheel brace.. Also a few screw drivers, spanners, pliers, Buy cheap ones at a Pound Shop if none come with the van, they only need to last the trip.
Plastic Box with Close Fitting Lid. About 500mm by 300mm and 300mm deep, can be used as a "washing machine". Part fill with cold water, add some liquid laundry detergent and your dirty cloths, and place the box on the floor, securely, somewhere. We put ours in the toilet compartment. As you drive along the sloshing action washes the cloths. Change the water once or twice to rinse when you come to a roadside tap, petrol station or roadside spar. Laundromats are expensive in UK and Europe about A$6-8.00 to do a load, so if you do your washing in small lots this way it will save a lot over the course of your trip.
Cloths line and Pegs. Hang out your washing at suitable locations, in campgrounds or in secluded SONPS, or just hang it up inside the van, in warm weather it will dry in a day.
Folding Camp Chairs. Small and lite ones. We bought a couple in Woolworths in the UK for about £5.00 each, stowed in the toilet compartment. Nice to be able to sit comfortably outside the van, under the awning.
Don’t even bother with the RAC or AA, they don’t do cover for periods over 90 days in Europe, and are not geared to insuring foreign campervanners, also they have no shops any more, its all done by mail and phone, and a waste of time calling them.Downunder Insurance Brokers
3 Spring Street Padington (Paddington tune, Circle Line)
0171 402 9211
0800 393 928
Road Tax
Vehicles are often sold privately without the road TAX being paid, and this has to be paid before you can legally drive it on the road. The vehicle can still be registered to its legal "keeper" (the English term for the person legally responsible for the vehicle who may or may not also be the owner) but people often let the tax run out before it is sold. While you can pay the tax at any post office, (and get any forms and information leaflets) you will need to transfer the ownership, and if you don’t want to wait 3 to 6 weeks to do it by post, it means a visit in person to the motor registration office.
When you get your vehicle, after you have insured it, (yes its still done separately from registration in the UK), you will need to go in person to the Motor Vehicles Registration office in Wimbledon a London suburb and transfer the ownership, and get a temporary certificate of ownership. There are long queues and it can take a couple of hours, so don't leave it late in the day. You may not get served and have to go back next day. They take three weeks to post out the permanent certificate after you lodge the transfer, but you can get the temporary in about 30 minutes (for a £3 fee).
As you will only have a flat or hotel address the permanent certificate will probably get lost long before you get back from Europe, so the temporary one will be your only proof of ownership. You will need to carry it with you on your trip, (police in Europe may want proof that you own the vehicle) and you can use it to give to the new owner when you sell.
When we sold our van I only had the temporary certificate. I just endorsed it on the back stating to whom I had sold the van and stating that the "permanent" certificate had never been in my possession and had been lost in the post. The buyer was happy with and I presume it all worked out for him.
Having a left hand drive would be of some advantage in Europe, but we found no problem with our right hand drive Transit on European roads. You need to adjust to having the driving position on the "wrong" side, and take care in passing oncoming traffic on narrow roads, but we found one soon gets used to it. If you buy a LHD vehicle in the UK it will possibly be much harder to sell on return, as the only buyers will be potential European travellers. There are a few LHD’s for sale in the UK, but to restrict yourself to only LHD when buying would so restrict your choice that you could be looking for six months instead of enjoying Europe. I was concerned about it before the trip, but my advice after is that it is not a major consideration, RHD works just fine.
LPG, propane or butane is sold widely throughout the UK and Europe. However the system of distribution is quite different to Australia in that you do not get cylinders refilled on the spot, but buy an exchange cylinder of the same brand and size as your own, and leave the empty one with the dealer. Each country has their own type of cylinder, and the only brand of gas cylinder that you can buy (end exchange for full ones) in the UK and in all of the parts of western Europe that we visited, is called "Camping Gas". It only comes in three small sizes the largest cylinder holding about 2.7Kg of gas.
In
the UK most vans have a 13Kg (red propane)
or 15 Kg ( blue butane) cylinder of "Calor"
brand gas, [15Kg Butane Cylinder dimensions are about 580mm high, 322mm diameter].
The red cylinders are supposed to be better for cold weather, (the blue gas
can freeze in extreme cold weather) and you can’t exchange a red for a blue
any more. They cost around £15-18 for a refill, all over the UK, at campgrounds
and hardware stores. The problem is you can not get them refilled in Europe,
nor exchange them for other European brand cylinders. Hence the need to have
a second gas supply cylinder for an extended European trip, either one of the
several European cylinders or Camping Gas as a secondary system. A 2.7Kg Camping
Gas cylinder can generally be accommodated in most camper vans in addition to
the main gas cylinder, but in ours there was not room for two large (15Kg)
cylinders.
LPG is generally much more expensive in the UK and Europe, than in Australia or the USA, even in the larger (about 15Kg) cylinders of various brands sold in each country. "Camping Gas" is even more horrendously expensive, about £7 in March 2000 (£12.99 in June 2004) (for a 2.7Kg refill in the UK and around SF32 for the same in Switzerland. Gas is cheapest in Spain, where a Camping Gas 2.7Kg costs around 850-1,000 Pesetas or £4. To buy a 2.7Kg Camping Gas cylinder initially will cost you about £27 (£32.99), including the £7 (£12.99) worth of gas.
You will also require a special regulator for it, and a screwdriver to enable you to change the regulator if you are using a dual cylinder setup with say a 15Kg "Calor" cylinder and a 2.7Kg Camping Gas cylinder for use in Europe when your main cylinder runs out of gas. You can also buy the Camping Gas cylinders and regulators all over Europe at the same outlets where you get the exchange refills. Therefor there is no need to buy a Camping Gas cylinder and regulator in the UK, as you will be better off seeing if a 15Kg French or Spanish cylinder will fit into your van. If you have room in the van for another cylinder about the same size as your Calor, you will be able to buy another larger cylinder in Europe which will be much more economical than continually having to buy refills of small Camping Gas cylinders. The inconvenience of having to find where to buy gas every week or so, while touring, if using Camping Gas, also makes careful attention to getting the best solution to this problem worth a bit of effort.
In the Transit van on our 2000 tour we found that we used around 230g of gas a day for cooking (no gas used for heating as we had a diesel heater) and for running our small refrigerator when not driving, when it ran off 12 volt battery power. Gas usage could vary widely for different people depending how much you cook or eat out, but if our rate of usage is typical, a large Calor Gas cylinder would last about 2 months, not enough for a long European trip. Similar size cylinders can be bought in France, but the cylinders are different in Spain and different again in Italy. The above is minimal consumption and with a larger van touring the UK in 2004 we found we used about 1Kg of propane gas a day.
If, like ours, your van does not have room for both the Calor cylinder and a large European cylinder, consider leaving the Calor behind, particularly if you have somewhere such as a friends house where you can leave it until you return from Europe.
If centering your trip around France you may be better off taking only a Camping Gas cylinder, for use as a stand by, and buying a new big French cylinder. 15Kg of gas costs around FF300, and about FF120 to exchange, but a 2.7Kg Camping Gas will cost FF90-130 to exchange for a full one. You will have enough gas for fairly extensive trips into other countries, and you can always buy Camping Gas, if you run short.
We also noted a new system at French service stations where they supply a pair of 7.5Kg cylinders so you can exchange one when it is empty while still having plenty of gas in the other. We think these were priced around FF300 for the pair, and of course will need a "French" regulator.
If your vehicle has room for two large cylinders, carry one Calor, and leave room to buy a large cylinder in the country where you will spend the most time. If you have a gas heater in the van, and particularly if touring in winter, the cost of running on Camping Gas would soon eat a serious hole in the budget. There are different regulators for the different cylinders too, so you will need a regulator for each type you intend to use.
Some of the petrol companies that sell gas (LPG for Americans not the gas (gasoline) you run your cars on!) sell their own brands of gas cylinder, and as some operate across several countries, there may be some types of cylinder that could be used in several countries. We did not get to the bottom of this as our limited linguistic skills did not enable us to undertake complex inquiries of this nature. Except in Germany, where almost everybody aged under 40 speaks good English, where, when we were buying Camping Gas, we heard of some moves to introduce some standardisation in cylinders across Europe. So the situation may be changing for the better.
Where you actually buy Camping Gas also differs from country to country. In the UK camping parks and some hardware stores sell Calor and Camping Gas. In France, auto service stations sell large "French" gas cylinders and large Supermarkets sell Camping Gas, camping parks generally do not sell any gas in France. In Spain, Italy and Switzerland Austria and Germany the situation is the reverse of France, you can only buy Camping Gas at camping parks, not in Supermarkets.
We also had a little Camping Gas hikers stove that takes 190gram gas cylinders, that you can buy in camping shops all over the world. The 190g cylinders cost about A$2.75, £1.00 and FF6 at discount shops. This is cheaper per Kg of gas than 90-130FF for the larger Camping Gas 2.7Kg cylinder.
You can make up an adaptor to screw into the hiking stove in place of the burner, to fit into the 6mm rubber regulator hose, that connects into the campers gas lines. You would have to make it up yourself from a couple of suitable fittings, screwed or silver soldered together before the trip. Then you could use these little cylinders as a stop gap supply. One would last a day or more, and would give you a very compact alternative supply, and save having to carry a 2.7Kg Camping Gas cylinder, perhaps leaving room for a second 15Kg cylinder.
Gas Update 2004. - Problem solved - refillable cylinders & Autogas.
In 2004 in the UK at one outlet we saw the price of a Camping Gas exchange refill had risen to £12.99 for a 2.7 Kg cylinder. Camping gas is absurdly expensive and we recommend you try to find some other way around the problem.
Fortunately at last the solution is at hand. Refillable cylinders are now available in the UK that you can refill yourself with Autogas (LPG auto fuel) at any service station that sells LPG.
Although there is still a need for two types of adapter fittings to use them in some European countries, because LPG bowsers have differing filler connection systems across Europe, this is the best and most economical solution.
MTH refillable cylinders come in the 11.5 Kg size shown and in June 2004 retail at around £200.00.
For more complete details visit the MTH
website
If you use Calor Gas it will cost you £24.99 for a 13Kg cylinder (a one time non refundable "rental" fee, and you still don't own anything, Calor still own "your" cylinder. If you use propane it will cost you £14.25 (2004 price) for a refill of 13Kg. If there are only two of you, and you are frugal and a disciple of Scrooge McDuck (blessed be his illustrious name) like me, it might last about 2 weeks in a small campervan, not using the heater much. If you have a couple of kids in the van and the weather is cold, it is more likely you will need a refill about once a week.
With Calor propane, on a six week tour of the UK that's £110.49 for gas refills and the initial cylinder "hire".
With an 11Kg refillable the same amount of Autogas at 38P per Liter (not per Kg) 155 Liters which equals 78Kg of propane costs £58.92, plus the cost of the refillable cylinder £200 comes to £258.92. But you also have a real asset in your van that will add to resale value.
MTH
Autogas also market another type of lightweight refillable cylinder, in three
sizes, ahown here. Like the steel cylinders shown aBOVE they can also be installed
singly or in a pair with an automatic changeover valve.
MTH can advise on the type of cylinder best suited for your needs and arrange installation, or you can do it yourself.
If you are buying a camper in the UK to tour Europe you are probably planning on a tour of 3 to 6 months, and in Europe you CAN'T get the Calor cylinder refilled anywhere, so you either have to buy another cylinder, possibly several (French Spanish etc and you won't be able to carry them all with you and probably will get nothing for them when you have no further use or return to the UK to sell your van), or use the dreaded expensive Camping Gas.
On say a 4 month tour of Europe at the same rate of gas consumption you will need 17 weeks x 13Kg = 221Kg of gas. Thai's 81 Camping Gas 2.7Kg cylinders (that's the biggest there is). In 2000 we paid (pre the Euro) up to French Franks 130 = £13.00, and Swiss Franks 32 for a 2.7Kg Camping Gas refill. That's when it was £7.00 in the UK. Now Camping Gas costs £12.99 in the UK, and who knows how much more in Europe.
So 81 refills at the current UK price of £12.99 a time is £1,052 for gas. Add to that you would need at least two Camping Gas cylinders that cost £20 each in 2000 more now, and you would be up for £1,092.00. Apart from that, just finding where to get the gas every few days is a time wasting bugbear. Where it is sold differs from country to country, some larger supermarkets in France, camping grounds in Spain and Germany. But although its fairly widely available not all of the likely outlets stock it, so you sometimes have to run from one to another to actually buy a cylinder of gas. I can tell you it is a real hassle. You will also drive miles and miles just looking for gas. I know, been there done that.
With the refillable cylinders, using the UK price for simplicity (although Autogas is actually cheaper in Europe where it varies from country to country) you will need about 439 Liters at say 38Pence/L = £166.95. Compare that with £1,092 for camping gas. A refillable cylinder will quickly pay for itself.
If you have a very small van (like a VW camper or a bit bigger Transit van, like we did in 2000, and regularly recite praises to Scrooge McDuck (blessed be his illustrious name) while freezing 8,000 feet up in the Swiss Alps, because it's too bloody expensive to run the heater, you will probably not use this much gas, although the figures I give are realistic for a family of 4 in a modest 20 foot campervan running a fridge, hot water system, cooker and a sparing amount of heating. If you tour in winter and have a gas heater you would use much more gas.
Any way you look at it the cost of an MTH refillable cylinder system is going to be far more than repaid by the savings on gas alone for any tour of Europe of the duration we are discussing here on this site. Apart from that the convenience of being able to top up your gas when you stop for diesel fuel at a service station, and the time saved in not having to drive miles out of your way to find gas will mean you have literally days more holiday. And it isn't always easy to FIND camping gas, particularly if you don't speak the local language very well. Yes we always found it, in the end, but I remember we sometimes wasted a lot of time and miles hunting it down,
In 2004 we are undertaking another European tour in our new 1990 Peujeot Talbot 2.5 diesel camper, and hope to have a refillable cylinder installed before we leave the UK. The cylinder simply sits in your campers gas cylinder locker. It is not a fixture like a vehicle LPG fuel tank. The only installation needed is to fit a filler point on the van or inside the LPG locker, which is only a matter of a few screws to mount it and taking a flexible hose (possibly a hole in the body panel if you want the filler mounted there) to the free standing cylinder inside the locker. You can use either another refillable cylinder or a Calor or camping Gas cylinder as your reserve supply. However because you can top up whenever you want, you don't have to wait until the cylinder is empty, you may not need any back up cylinder at all.
So where can you get these refillable cylinders? Email MTH for deatails of a dealer or installer near you. Refillable cylinders are new to the UK so a distribution network is still being established.
Click on the MTH Logo
to e-mail the manufacturer, and then request their current product information
and prices, and dealer locations, or visit the MTH
website.
Don't leave home (or the UK) without one.
You can get your American Express card replaced, but without your MTH Autogas refillable cylinder in Europe, you're stuffed mate!
.
Our van was in generally excellent condition, apart from an unusual shudder in the clutch at low speed when reversing and starting on a hill. We decided to get it replaced after driving from London to Canterbury. After approaching every major Garage in this quite large English city, and there were about six places that we found that could do the job, the earliest we could get it done was in a weeks time. So we had to wait around. Maybe by going back to London we could have got it done quicker. Friends told us that such delays are nor unusual in the UK, too much work for too few skilled tradesman. Delays could be worse near major holiday periods. It cost £240, from LEX Auto service, a seemingly reputable chain of mechanical workshops that provided a 2 year warranty, valid throughout the UK.
I suspect the situation could be similar in parts of Europe. In Ronda in Spain, the local Ford dealers told us that it would be a week before they could book us in for just an oil change! I ended up buying an oil filter and a filter wrench and 5 litres of oil in a supermarket and changing it myself. You can put the old oil into a spare plastic oil container and leave it at a garage when you buy fuel, or at a local garbage dump site, which are sign posted in most small towns and villages.
If you do want to do your own oil changes buy your 5 Litre bottle of oil in Southern France or in Spain, where oil is much cheaper than in the UK, Italy Austria or Germany. The difference is not minor, it costs only 1/3 the price in Spain (in supermarkets) compared to Italy. Find an old empty oil bottle before to drain the used oil into, and discreetly leave it at a garage when you get fuel.
Our flat had no phone, and public phones are not all that common. Pay as you go phones on the One2One network cost about £50 in March 2000, and may be even cheaper now, (including £10 in calls) at "Dixons" shops, and you just credit another £10 by buying a card at almost any corner shop when ever you need. There is no monthly access charge, you never get a bill, because you pre pay for calls when you buy a new phone card, and you never need to have any contact with the phone company. The cards you buy have a number, conceeled under a scrape off coating, which you key into the phone after calling a special contact phone number. The phones are GSM and will work back in Australia or any other country that uses the GSM system (not the USA) so you can take it home and get a new SIM card from your local network operator and use it at home, as a local network subscriber.
Dixons, The Link and several other chains of phone shops sell all the types of mobiles and will give you advice on the best deal at the time for your requirement. Dixons have a computer system which works out the best deal from all the different pricing plans offered by the various mobile network operators, based on your anticipated calling pattern. In April 2000 the One2One network deal was clearly the best for our needs, but deals change quickly on mobiles, so check the deals and ask at a couple of shops, costs vary widely. On the One2One network there are several call plans which you can change every time you buy a new top up card. The call credits never expire.
On the plan we used calls, at any time of day, cost 5p per minute to fixed line phones anywhere in the UK, after the first two minutes of call time in any day that you use the phone. For the first 2 minutes of the day the charge is 30P per minute. This is not on every call, only the first two minutes use on any day. There are no monthly access charges. Calls to other mobiles cost a lot more about 30P per minute. If you don't use the phone for a while it costs you nothing and you retain all credits. You can opt for a plan for cheaper night time but dearer daytime calls, but as we used it for hunting vans we considered the flat 5P rate to be best.
International calls from these phones are VERY EXPENSIVE so only use them for calls within the UK. Although you can now also arrange roaming in other countries for your One2One prepaid phone, these calls are also prohibitively expensive.
For international calls the best system is to buy a phone card that offers good rates. Americans should do this in the USA, after shopping around for a deal which offers good rates from foreign countries.
Some phone companies also offer a service whereby you can make calls from overseas to your home country and have the calls billed to your home phone number for their usual international rates plus a small extra connection charge. OPTUS in Australia offers such a service for their Australian subscribers, and we found this to be the best and simplest method for us. We could call Australia from any public phone in UK or Europe without the need for any coins. Check with your long distance home phone service provider.
In 2004 we found the best deal in UK mobiles was from Virgin Mobile, by buying a SIM card for £9.99 on a pay as you go scheme, and I was able to use the same phone I had bought in 2000.
For on the road navigation the British AA "Big Road Atlas of Europe" is suitable and is available widely in London bookshops and at Downunder Insurance for £10. The mainly 1:1,000,000 scale maps provide adequate coverage of all of western Europe. Maps on a smaller scale should not be bought. We found it adequate for touring and only bought one more detailed map of the Ille de France area around Paris.
If you want to spend a lot of time in any particular area (particularly walking) you may want an additional map or two. However unless you have a clearly identified need and want the maps in advance for detailed planning we recommend that you buy them locally as you need them. Buying maps at home (in Australia at least) before your trip will cost you a lot more than getting them locally where you need them. French book stores stock a wide range of detailed maps at various scales for around FF35 to FF45.
Free maps of most towns and cities are available from tourist information offices, which we generally were able to find easily, even in the larger cities. Some towns in Germany may charge you 1D Mark for a city map, but mostly they are free all over Europe.
We found it almost always easy to enter cities and find our way to the city centre, because most have excellent signs. Tourist offices are usually located near the main railway station and there are always signs to it. You soon get used to the linguistic differences on simple signs to the "town centre" or "station".
On the few occasions when we had the slightest difficulty finding our way,
we soon found somebody who spoke enough English to help with directions. Most
police in France and particularly in Germany speak at least enough English to
help you. We knew only enough of the local languages to greet people, exchange
pleasantries and ask if they spoke English, and this polite concession to the
local language seemed always to be sufficient to create a good impression, and
we generally found locals helpful and friendly.
The best system for travellers by far, in our opinion is, VISA TRAVEL MONEY CARDS. These are a prepaid type of debit card which are marketed by Thomas Cook in most countries. The card has a PIN number but has no other identifying information on it, other than a serial card number and can't be used without the PIN if lost or stolen, they work only in ATM's and can't be used to buy goods from merchants. VISA charge 1% commission when you buy the card, and there is a fixed charge per ATM withdrawal of A$2.50 if you buy the card in Australia, or £1.00 if you buy it in the UK. You can withdraw cash in local currency at almost any bank ATM in the world, and there is no extra charge. You also get the same exchange rate that credit card transactions get, which is generally about as good as it gets for small transactions. Naturally it pays to withdraw a reasonable amount of cash at a time and not make lots of very small withdrawals, or you will incur lots of little usage charges that add up.
Here's the funny bit. Although Thomas Cook generally sell the cards, all over the world, in the UK they don't, at least not in April 2000, except by post, and the place to get them, face to face, is the Alliance and Leicester Building Society. This is like a bank and has high street branches all over London. This is a very valuable piece of information to have, as it took us two hours of incessant persistence to glean this out of Thomas Cook in the UK, who had only just begun to be associated with Visa Travel Money cards in the UK, and hadn't told most of their staff about it! They insisted you could only buy them by credit card over the phone and have them posted to you. As we wanted to leave for Europe as soon as possible, this didn't suit us at all , and conflicted with earlier advice from Thomas Cook Heathrow branch, whom I had phoned about it before the trip. With much persistence and the help of a Thomas Cook branch manager at Woolwich (London metro branch) and TWO HOURS of phone calls, from the Thomas Cook Office, we eventually found about the Alliance and Leicester arrangement. Only problem is most of the staff at Alliance and Leicester didn't know about it either! So after another half hour at the Bexley Heath (London) branch of A&L we had it sorted out and our Visa Travel Money Cards ordered for delivery and pick up in two days.
This monumental bumbling managerial incompetence was only overcome by the most dogged persistence and polite but firm refusal to accept nonsense answers, some along the lines of "the computer system won't allow it"!
Well it can be done, the computer couldn't care less, we did it.
In the process we educated about 15 of Thomas Cook's people and about six A & L staff, and YES it was all worth it! The staff at all the high street offices were helpful, it was just that the management of the whole system was totally uncoordinated, no one knew who was responsible, and the first reaction of "managers" who had not been trained how to handle the problem was to either deny all knowledge, try to convince us we were misinformed, of say it couldn't be done, or was not policy, or try to blame "the computer system"!
After getting our cards, and sorting out yet another
bungle over them mixing up the PIN numbers on our four cards (two each
for my wife and I) we had no further problems. They worked perfectly in
every ATM we went to all over Europe. When we returned to London we received
a refund in full of the unused balance on our VTM cards, from Alliance
and Leicester, but only by CHEQUE, even though we had paid in CASH. So
our English bank account was again useful to deposit the refund cheque
into.
Despite the absurd comic opera difficulty of getting the cards in the UK, which would have defeated all but the most determined customer, once you get one, the VTM card system is in our opinion the best, most convenient, lowest cost, and secure, way to take money on a holiday, particularly where you will be using a number of different currencies. Almost all ATM's in the world accept the card.In the words of Winston Churchill - With dogged determination we of this sceptred Isle, will never be defeated, we will fight them on the beaches, on land and in the air, we will never surrender, until victory is ours - and we get our bloody VTM cards. !!!
Hopefully Thomas Cook, Visa and Alliance and
Leicester have sorted out this managerial mess by now and you can
get your VTM card in the UK more simply. Maybe you would be better off
getting it in your home country before setting off, but we didn't do that,
partly because we wanted to have our campervan first, so that we were certain
of the trip proceeding, before we paid out for the cards, as of course
you don't get a refund of the 1% commission. Old Scrooge doesn't like to
waste money and Scrooge is not easily dissuaded, even when confronted
with seemingly overwhelming incompetence that would leave most would be
customers banging their heads on the wall in disbelief.
Merchants don't take VTM cards, you can ONLY use them in ATM's to get CASH.
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